ANOTHER NATIONAL BLACK EYE FOR CLEVELAND…
September 2nd, 2007
We’ve all seen the signs stating that a business reserves the right to do things that it really has no right to do. One of those faux rights is to examine our packages after we’ve paid for our purchases and headed out the door. Rather than hire security to actually stop shoplifters corporations go cheap and think they can just stomp on our real rights.
This was the headline that appeared this morning on Boing Boing:
Papers Please: Arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show ID, receipt.
From Michael Rigi:
Next to the grocery store was a Circuit City. (The Brooklyn, Ohio Circuit City to be exact.) Having forgotten that it was my sister’s birthday I decided to run in and buy her a last minute gift. I settled on Disney’s “Cars” game for the Nintendo Wii. I also needed to purchase a Power Squid surge protector which I paid for separately with my business credit card. As I headed towards the exit doors I passed a gentleman whose name I would later learn is Santura. As I began to walk towards the doors Santura said, “Sir, I need to examine your receipt.” I responded by continuing to walk past him while saying, “No thank you.”
As I walked through the double doors I heard Santura yelling for his manager behind me. My father and the family had the Buick pulled up waiting for me outside the doors to Circuit City. I opened the door and got into the back seat while Santura and his manager, whose name I have since learned is Joe Atha, came running up to the vehicle. I closed the door and as my father was just about to pull away the manager, Joe, yelled for us to stop. Of course I knew what this was about, but I played dumb and pretended that I didn’t know what the problem was. I wanted to give Joe the chance to explain what all the fuss was for.
I reopened the door to talk with Joe and at this point Joe positioned his body between the open car door and myself. (I was still seated in the Buick.) Joe placed his left hand on the roof of the car and his right hand on the open car door. I asked Joe if there was a problem. The conversation went something like this:
Me: “Is there a problem?”
Joe: “I need to examine your bag and receipt before letting you leave this parking lot.”
Me: “I paid for the contents in this bag. Are you accusing me of stealing?”
Joe: “I’m not accusing you of anything, but I’m allowed by law to look through your bag when you leave.”
Me: “Which law states that? Name the law that gives you the right to examine my bag when I leave a Circuit City.”
Of course Joe wasn’t able to name the law that gives him, a U.S. citizen and Circuit City employee the right to examine anything that I, a U.S. citizen and Circuit City customer am carrying out of the store.
Here’s an idea for a bit of guerrilla theatre:
Go to your nearest Circuit City. Buy the least expensive item you can think of — preferably something that will fit in your hand — pay for it in cash, stick the receipt in your pocket, do the environmentally sane thing by telling the cashier you don’t need a bag and then:
Exercise your full Constitutional Right as a law-abiding citizen of the United States to walk out the door.
Let the fun being.
Okay – I’m going to do it, I’m going to say it: why is it such a big deal to show the receipt? I know some will say it’s the principle of the thing but the counterbalance of making sure stuff isn’t stolen isn’t such a heinous, unconstitutional concern.
Seriously, the guy just didn’t want to do it. No – there should not be overreaction, but still – everytime I go to BJs, I stand there while they make sure everything’s on my receipt. What is the big deal? What is the darker thing I’m missing?
To me, it’s like seatbelts. Just because the law says you should wear them doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t have to.
Shalom Jill,
It’s a big deal because we fought a War of Independence and sacrificed the lives of millions of our citizens over our 231-year history to preserve our rights both articulated and implied by the our Constitution.
When something is paid for in blood, it’s a big deal.
What indignity would you draw the line at?
B’shalom,
Jeff
We stop at stop signs because the traffic laws, as we’ve empowered our legislators to decide, dictate that we believe that that’s a safe thing to do. We don’t rely on people to judge for themselves whether or not the coast is clear in advance and then choose to stop or not stop.
How is what this private corporation is doing different?
*yes, I’m playing devil’s advocate, but mostly because I don’t find it to be a burdensome or without rational reasons thing to do.
Where do YOU draw the line re: it’s okay to be asked to prove something – like you paid for a product?
Jill-
Before last month, I probably would have agreed with you concerning showing a receipt when asked. having said that, wouldn’t part of Mr. Santura’s job be to watch the checkout stations to compare the people making purchases vs. those walking out the door. Unless they were very busy, I am sure this would be possible. Sometimes, it is in the delivery as well. Such as I’m sorry but I was occupied when you went through line could I see your sales receipt? Asking permission rather than demanding probably would go a long way.
Tim and I have felt that training for sales associates and customer service reps are sorely lacking in and around our area. Ridge Park Square and Steellyard Commons with the exception of Target and Home Depot. The worker bees at those establishments are always smiling, helpful and go the extra mile for you.
Back to the issue, the most troubling thing for me with this whole thing is this “the law says I can”. I heard WAY too much of that during our recent referendum drive. This mentality of private corporate employees citing laws that do not exist to justify actions. Where are they getting these things? The other one that public property is “private” property namely the sidewalk.
We have all of these people citing laws that don’t exist to give them the right to subject other people to basically what could be considered an “illegal search” There now I have done it too. A bit over the top but what are we becoming a nation of people citing laws that don’t exist on both sides to justify rude and obnoxious behavior.
Where do we draw the line on these things? I still feel that had the young man at the door been doing his job he could have easily seen that the other young man had purchased the items and he could have simply said “Have a good day!”
Civility goes a long way in cutting down on these inane confrontations that we fill our lives with rather than positive interatctions with other people.
Shalom Gloria,
Well said. Thank you.
B’shalom,
Jeff
Gloria – you make a good point re: doing their job, having seen the purchase etc. I wouldn’t argue with that. however, for me, as a member of BJs, I haven’t checked but I assume that they do have the right to request, at the door, where the person can’t see me checking out, to see the receipt. And I accept that I can choose not to patronize the place. As i think I wrote but will write again, could also be one of those, If I’d Been There.
I hate the “because I said so” explanations – I almost never use them with my kids and it drives some members of my family nuts that I’ll explain everything. Fingers in electrical outlets etc. are probably the only exceptions I can think of, at the time that it’s happening.
so I understand what you’re saying about the citation of nonexistent laws. Having gone through law school, I feel confident in challenging those too and maybe I take that for granted – I can see that no one should feel intimidated by such assertions by people in security etc. esp. when they are innocent.
Shalom Jill,
All thefts of rights begin slowly.
It is far easier to uproot an acorn than it is to chop down an oak.
B’shalom,
Jeff
Jill,
The reason they CAN do that at BJs is because it’s a private ‘club’. You pay a membership fee to shop there and in doing so, agree to their rules. This is not the case for any other store that is perceived as free to the public. Once your transaction is done, you are free to leave the store.
I’m posting to this old thread because I’ve realized these stores have begun using a new tactic. They include sensors in all their products, and neglect to deactivate them for ANY and EVERY purchase. That way, you’ll always set off the alarms when leaving and seem to have no choice but to submit to the search. The legality of this is questionable, not to mention how offensive it is to be customer treated like a criminal.
-Pete
Shalom Peter,
First, thank you for stopping in, for reading and, most importantly, for taking the time to share your views. Our future depends upon our conversations.
Could you further share with us the stores that are not deactivating sensors?
B’shalom,
Jeff
Interesting thread!
Here is my guess (I’m not a lawyer)-
The security guy cannot demand for receipt or bag search, but he can threaten that he will consider the unusually stern refusal as basis for suspicion.
In that case he has the right to arrest you.
This basis for arrest is a bit weak so it may or may not be valid, but there is a deterrence in the uncertainty.
Anybody agrees/disagrees?
Shalom Focal,
First, thank you for stopping in, for reading and, most importantly, for taking the time to share your point of view.
Fortunately, we still live in a nation where the refusal to surrender Constitutional right is not grounds for violating those rights. Rent-a-cops can huff and puff all they want, but unless they are willing to actually accuse of of shoplifting and call the police, they’re just big bags of wind.
B’shalom,
Jeff